The Remove

by John Nettell (1941)

In 1941, as far as I remember, fee-payers all started in 2A and scholarship boys in Remove. Why it was called Remove I do not know. I only remember being told “it is traditional” which was no answer.

Both classes numbered about 30 boys so there must have been about as many of one as the other. There was no 1A or 1B because School Cert was done to a four year programme and you had to finish up (if successful) in year 5 in the Sixth Form.

After Remove, one was put into the next year’s A or B form depending on your results, no social selection. The bright ones went to the next year’s A and the others went to B. And we didn’t have cap parades, or monthly merit order to determine one’s seat in class.

I think I’m glad I left before Fred Lay really got into his stride!

I think there was also in 1941 a Form 5C, known as Shell.

It could have been written by me

by George Pulley (1944-49)


“I have to respond to the article in the July Newsletter No 8 by Mike Brogden

This could have been written by me of my experiences and feelings when at school in the forties (1944-9). I went, as I failed the 11 plus, as a paying scholar!, and my parents paid for me, for only two terms, I think when the government of the day decided to scrap that and they no longer paid. I felt as this group we were looked down upon and got the worst teachers, although I do not know if there were many good ones then. Most of our classes we had “Solar’, who “taught” us everything, or was it nothing? His speciality I believe was Latin, after one year it was dropped from our syllabus.

One of the teachers was younger and a right charlatan. How he missed being in the forces I do not know, probably on medical grounds, having nothing between his ears. A few anecdotes about this “teacher”. That being a horse racing addict from one year old (my grandfather being a jockey, I was 6 feet and 16 stone – believe that if you will), I often ran a book for big races i.e. Derby?, Grand National, with another boy Pat Forrest. Pat had the list of odds and was taking bets, probably a penny or sixpence max, when he came into class and caught him. “What is this?” he asked Pat. “Nothing Sir” as was the standard reply. He removed the document from Pat and said “This is odds for The Derby, let’s see what the price is …….?”, and promptly gave Pat a sixpence to wager on the horse, which incidentally lost. 

Another time he threw a hard blackboard duster at me, I ducked and it hit and broke a picture behind me; he thereafter stopped this practice. As it was wartime, things were hard to get, and he would often bribe boys to get things he wanted in return for letting them off detention etc. My speciality was Brylcream, which he liked, and I had a tame hairdresser who would supply me. I got a lot of detention and lines so he could bribe me. A lovely man! (A prize for guessing his name)

Although now I revere Ian “Spud” Taylor, I learnt little of physics, except those which related to Rugby football, a game I hated and still do. Luckily I wore glasses from age one and still do, so managed to avoid being a Hooker!

I never aspired to School Cert, as it was then, and at just under 16 Lay told my father perhaps he should find a job for me.. This was done, and although I hated Maths, most of my early working life was with figures. I spent 18 years at Pressed Steel in Accounts and Research, where figures were the order of the day. For all its faults I made my way successfully and for over thirty years, from age 38, ran my own Private Detective business, becoming President of my trade Association. I have since written a book of my memoirs, now out of print.

I was never interested in old boys club etc, until I heard that some old boys were getting together to form a new one. I went to the inaugural meeting at The Greyhound and the rest is history.

So, did things ever change at School after the forties and fifties? I wonder.”

The Grading System

by John Nettell (1941)

In 1941, as far as I remember, fee-payers all started in 2A and scholarship boys in Remove. Why it was called Remove I do not know. I only remember being told “it is traditional” which was no answer.

Both classes numbered about 30 boys so there must have been about as many of one as the other. There was no 1A or 1B because School Cert was done to a four year programme and you had to finish up (if successful) in year 5 in the Sixth Form.

After Remove one was put into the next year’s A or B form depending on your results, no social selection, The bright ones went to the next year’s A and the others went to B. And we didn’t have cap parades, or monthly merit order to determine one’s seat in class, I think I’m glad I left before Fred Lay really got into his stride! I think there was also in 1941 a Form 5C, known as Shell.

A sense of superiority

by Philip Hunt (1960-67)

Encouraging the debate: Lord Philip Hunt sides with Nigel Molden

(Lord) Philip Hunt (1960-67) writes:

I was very interested in Nigel Molden’s piece. Some of my experience chimes with his and I thought you might be interested in some comments. 

I went to the school at the same time as Nigel (I lived in Cowley and went to Cowley St James primary school). I was in the 1b/2s etc class through to O levels. It was definitely regarded as the bottom stream. It’s an interesting commentary on the time, that science was not rated so highly as the classics/arts.

I don’t think Nigel is right that we were banished to the old Central School. In fact 1b was in the main block with Mr I Taylor as form teacher. But I do remember going there for art and TD – both of which I was completely hopeless at!! The visits to South Oxford School for wood-work bring similar dreaded memories.

I didn’t really enjoy my school experience and struggled academically until I reached Sixth Form. Nigel has no memory of the B/S people going onto the sixth form, but I was certainly not the only one. There I was very fortunate to be taught by David Walker and Colin Rummings and got really interested in history and economics. I went on to Leeds University to study politics and I am pretty sure that there were others from the B/S stream that went on to university.

It is interesting that comparatively few of the students starting out at the school did go directly into higher education. I do agree there was a lack of ambition for the students by the school. I guess most of us were the first generation in our families to go to university and the school reflected a philosophy pre the expansion of higher education which took place in the 60s.

I didn’t leave school enamoured with the grammar school system. There was a pervading sense of superiority over the secondary modern schools and inferiority to schools like MCS.

Congratulations to Mike Chew on encouraging this debate.

About Secondary Education

December 1922 – Editorial of the School Magazine

“Certain people are now demanding that all children shall have a ‘secondary’ education, and this, without considering the cost or the advantage [sic] to the nation.

For our part we cannot see how this is to be done, unless the whole system of elementary education is changed, and all the schools in the country are put on a dead level. We hope the ‘German’ methods are not going to find supporters amongst responsible politicians.

There is a very broad and easily climbed ladder already, by which any boy may gain as much as he desires, let us leave matters alone now for another decade or two before we change.

This restless age no sooner gets a scheme built up. Then there comes a desire to pull it all down and build something else before the scheme is fairly tried.”

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